Yoram E. Shamir to me show details 11:59 AM (4 hours ago) http://www.palestineposterproject.org/poster/translation-in-progress-oct... Title: FREEDOM FROM FEAR Subtitle: Psychiatry: Arbitrary imprisonment, torture, arbitrary killing
Begin forwarded message: From: Hagai Aviel Date: October 30, 2010 3:50:40 AM EDT To: Subject: RE: Hey Aviel...its me, Dan Walsh_Liberation Graphics...I want to create a new Special Collection for IAAPA site... see inside... Shalom Walsh we are ISRAELI association against psychiatric assault. there is absolutely no way we'll take part in such a project/on such a website. Hagai Aviel/Chairperson Israeli Association Against Psychiatric Assault www.iaapa.org.il for 'International Association Against Psychiatric Assault' see: iaapa.ch
Dan Walsh writes: "Why would it be that you would not take part in such a website as the PPPA?...I think perhaps there is a misunderstanding." let's see if i misunderstand: your website/project promotes the annihilation of the state of israel, true or false? Hagai Aviel/Chairperson Israeli Association Against Psychiatric Assault www.iaapa.org.il for 'International Association Against Psychiatric Assault' see: iaapa.ch
hallo walsh i'm serious 1) just for the record - i didn't contacted "Liberation Graphics © 2009". 2) i did took you seriously, about a decade ago when i sent Israeli Association Against Psychiatric Assault's posters to the "Center for the Study of Political Graphics", to which i assume you have connections based on your sentence in your message from 31 august : "Can you send me translations and jpegs for the three posters you sent me like ten years ago?". since i'm on the mailing list of this entity i can safely say that i haven't seen even one reference to the subject of psychiatric oppression in it's projects. 3) the object of your project is to obliterate the existence of the state of Israel by displaying "Any poster published in the geographical territory of historic Palestine, at any point in history, including contemporary Israel;". "palestine" is an invention of the western colonial powers, from the days of rome's hadrian to united kingdom's george v. the people of the area refer to it differently. i'm sure that such a serious person as yourself checked the atlases of the muslim empire of the house of osman (-after all they ruled the area for 500 years up to 1918, well into the tendentious limits of your project). well, the area was -with other parts of the region known today as the states of levanon & yarden- under the jurisdiction of the wilayat of Damesek and was itself divided into 5 sandjaks: aza, yerusaleim, shchem, Lajjun, and zfat. so for the arabs there was no "palestine" which, FYI, they cannot even pronounce. as for the jews: i myself have hanging on my wall above my head as i write to you an hebrew language atlas of "eretz israel" printed in Warszawa, poland for jewish schools prior to 1909 (-Tel Aviv does not exist in it) which depict the numerous borderlines of the pahawa's (-arabic name for the turkish sandjak) which divided this tiny area. so also for the jews it is not "palestine". the current (-that is, the last century) resurgence of the fictional terms "palestine" is only meant to eliminate and destroy israel. and no, i'm not here referring to use of the term during the british mandate of the area. 4) i have no objection at all to any site/project featuring posters "in opposition to Israel/Zionism" and yes, it is "better to know what is being said and who is saying it" than "to live in ignorance". i trust that you don't take me for an ignorant. 5) the fact that several israelis living in Tel Aviv are willing to participate in this project of yours testify to the -indeed, democratic- freedom in our state, and by the same democratic freedom i say: damn them. as for your last remark: "I am...not a censor. I wrote to you to INCLUDE the posters of your organization, not to shut you out", the consistent evasion of Center for the Study of Political Graphics to deal with psychiatric oppression show its true colour. Hagai Aviel/Chairperson Israeli Association Against Psychiatric Assault www.iaapa.org.il for 'International Association Against Psychiatric Assault' see: iaapa.ch From: liberation@igc.org Subject: "your website/project promotes the annihilation of the state of israel, true or false?" Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 20:55:57 -0400 To: iaapa@hotmail.com Hello Again Aviel, I hope you will take me seriously. I hope you will not dismiss me and break off our exchange. You said: "your website/project promotes the annihilation of the state of israel, true or false?" I answer: False. But I respect your right to disagree. That is the essence of democracy, right? So in the interests of reason all I ask is that you tell me why you think so negatively of my website/project. Here are just a few ways I think my site does nothing like what you say: 1) there are almost 1,000 posters by Israeli artists and Zionist organizations listed-the largest online gallery of such posters in the world 2) Hebrew translations are provided for all the posters 3) hundreds of Jewish, Israeli and Zionists artists are featured, including David Tartakover, Ilan Molcho, Hany Arazi (all of whom have donated posters and who support/contribute to the site. David is the winner of the Israel Prize and Ilan is a world-celebrated designer and both of them live in Tel Aviv and are dedicated Israelis) plus many others. I could go on. If your answer is that the PPPA also features posters created by Palestinian and other groups who are in opposition to Israel/Zionism I would ask you to answer whether or not it is better to know what is being said and who is saying it or is it better to live in ignorance? I am the archivist of the PPPA: not a censor. I wrote to you to INCLUDE the posters of your organization, not to shut you out. I hope you will write back. Respectfully, Dan Walsh
hi dan walsh clearly i haven't the clue who you are, so can you refresh my memory as to what were you back in 1999 when apparently i wrote to you? and, come to think about it, what have you done with my posters in all those years? obviously i didn't sent israeli association etc. posters to "palestineposterproject". i propose to make this point clear before all else Hagai Aviel/Chairperson Israeli Association Against Psychiatric Assault www.iaapa.org.il for 'International Association Against Psychiatric Assault' see: iaapa.ch From: liberation@igc.org Subject: Re: "your website/project promotes the annihilation of the state of israel, true or false?" Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 09:27:13 -0400 To: iaapa@hotmail.com Hello Hagai Aviel, Thank you for having the courage and respect to write back. Because you did I am morally obligated to honor your words and respond. hallo walsh i'm serious 1) just for the record - i didn't contacted "Liberation Graphics © 2009". I don't see where I said that. I have a letter here from you (I can send you a jpeg if you like) from 1999. 2) i did took you seriously, about a decade ago when i sent Israeli Association Against Psychiatric Assault's posters to the "Center for the Study of Political Graphics", to which i assume you have connections based on your sentence in your message from 31 august : "Can you send me translations and jpegs for the three posters you sent me like ten years ago?". since i'm on the mailing list of this entity i can safely say that i haven't seen even one reference to the subject of psychiatric oppression in it's projects. I have nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with CSPG. Nothing. Your assumption is incorrect, sorry. 3) the object of your project is to obliterate the existence of the state of Israel by displaying "Any poster published in the geographical territory of historic Palestine, at any point in history, including contemporary Israel;". "palestine" is an invention of the western colonial powers, from the days of rome's hadrian to united kingdom's george v. the people of the area refer to it differently. i'm sure that such a serious person as yourself checked the atlases of the muslim empire of the house of osman (-after all they ruled the area for 500 years up to 1918, well into the tendentious limits of your project). well, the area was -with other parts of the region known today as the states of levanon & yarden- under the jurisdiction of the wilayat of Damesek and was itself divided into 5 sandjaks: aza, yerusaleim, shchem, Lajjun, and zfat. so for the arabs there was no "palestine" which, FYI, they cannot even pronounce. as for the jews: i myself have hanging on my wall above my head as i write to you an hebrew language atlas of "eretz israel" printed in Warszawa, poland for jewish schools prior to 1909 (-Tel Aviv does not exist in it) which depict the numerous borderlines of the pahawa's (-arabic name for the turkish sandjak) which divided this tiny area. so also for the jews it is not "palestine". the current (-that is, last century) resurgence of the fictional terms "palestine" is only meant to eliminate and destroy israel. and no, i'm not here referring to use of the term during the british mandate of the area. As you say in your letter, Israel is a Jewish democracy. The United States also has a free and open democratic tradition. The main difference is that here there is no religious basis for participation...anyone can write/say/publish anything no matter what their religion is. I believe this is more of a real democacy than the one in Israel where minorities and Palestinians are denied full and equal rights. Here, the response to your deep historical analysis of the word "Palestine" would be to say "so what"? Every word you wrote is rendered moot (even if it was true/accurate/empirical) by a number of counter arguments but perhaps the most "damning" one is the fact that from Basel (1897) until May 14, 1948 Zionists proudly called themselves "Palestinians". This was a way to demonstrate to Jewish people who refused/failed/were unable to do aliya that they, the Zionist Palestinians, were the new Jews, the sons and daughters of Herzl who were living an authentic Jewish life. You may refuse to consider any of this. You may prefer to live in the intellectually sterile and xenophobic world of Zionism. That is your right. That is a privilege that living in Israel grants to you. I, on the other hand, see my responsibilities differently. I do not see the world through a Zionist/xenophobic lens. I see my responsibility to speak TO Zionism, not to speak OUT ON Zionism, which is what I feel you think I am doing. I feel it is genuinely anti-Semitic to fail to communicate to Zionists/Israelis that Zionism has failed. It has failed to liberate the Jewish people. It has failed to become a "city on a hill"... I would consider it a betrayal of all the Jewish people in my world NOT to stand with them (Jewish people who refuse to live in Israel or support Zionism) and to honestly say to those who do that regardless of the hasbara of Bibi/Sharon/Begin/Leiberman, et. al....the American people do not support Zionism. Some of us do support Israel...but none of us support Zionism. You are free to disagree but I hope you have the ability to see that I am making an effort to communicate honestly with you and that "destroying" Israel is not my goal. Can you see that? 5) the fact that several israelis living in Tel Aviv are willing to participate in this project of yours testify to the -indeed, democratic- freedom in our state, and by the same democratic freedom i say: damn them. Yes, again, I refer back to the Jewish Democratic nature of Zionism/Israel. Some of the most famous Israeli artists cooperate with the PPPA. You use the strong words of "damning" them which seems odd since you work for an association dedicated to opposing abuse. Do you see any contradiction there? as for your last remark: "I am...not a censor. I wrote to you to INCLUDE the posters of your organization, not to shut you out", the consistent evasion of Center for the Study of Political Graphics to deal with psychiatric oppression show its true colour. How is it that you, without full knowledge or information, can know if something is "true" or not? How do you come by that power. Sadly, you are wrong about this. Can you see that? I have, as I said above, absolutely nothing to do with CSPG. You condemn the CSPG because they refuse/fail to say anything about psychiatric oppression. MY project, the PPPA WILL say something about it. We WILL post the IAAPA posters and provide a link and if you do 100 more posters we will include them as well. What I don't understand is: You condemn the CSPG for NOT saying a word for IAAPA and you condemn PPPA for offering to show solidarity with IAAPA. Q: How do you explain your position(s)? With respect, Dan Walsh, Archivist PPPA